Stupid questions about clutch trick

[diesel101]

Ok so Im ordering my bcs clutch basket as soon as they have more in stock but for now Im without it. My first question is, do i really need the full clutch update? Or can I just throw the bcs clutch basket in and be good to roll. I'm not a hardcore desert racer, just ride hard as hell a couple times a year.

Question #2: what side of my ds450 is the clutch on? I read that you could tip the bike on its side to let oil down to the clutch plates and that would help out tremendously...
I don't know which side to prop up.

Thanks

[Drilling2643]

Yes you want the full update, the new clutch cover has a oil hole that let's oil circulate better into your clutch plates, the extra steel plate will help the clutch chatter and fill room left from updated clutch cover, the clutch is on the left side if your sitting on the quad, people but the quad on its side to drain oil away from clutch, any questions let me know! The full update from brp cost me $204 if you don't want to wait for bcs,

[Droors92]

Quote: Originally Posted by Drilling2643

people but the quad on its side to drain oil away from clutch, any questions let me know!

Is that for when you are storing the bike, so oil wont be on the clutch? Is that recommended, & why? Thanks.

[jeephreak]

Clutch is on the left side of the bike....you can tip it on the right side so you dont have to drain the oil when you do the swap. Also remember when you do the swap to soak your plates in oil for a day before installing.

[TNT]

That’s a darn good question – People from rec riders to racers are failing the update, the 2009-9 update DID NOT CHANGE THE BASKET THAT HAS A GROOVE THE FAILS PLATE THE UPDATE DID NOT FIX THE PROBLEM OK! I keep putting this all over this forum and people do not get it……Call Hinson ask about the stock basket design and testing or call BCS. I heard hinson ran some test.I have not seen the groove this is what I was told by BCS/Hinson.

This groove on the BRP basket or the design of the basket could care less what level you race or how long, there is no tested fatigue life or cycle time established until there is owners have no idea under what riding conditions it will fail (ie; hours or torque)….you therefore run a risk of engine damage and/or bodily harm.

I don’t think BRP sells any update that is complete and cost effective, they need another service bulletin or saftey recall that provides a billet clutch basket that will cost much more than $204 the basket alone will cost at least that.

Your best option is to send BCS your inner hub and I believe they can drill the xtra fog hole in the cover, they will also machine the hub to fit their basket and drill a hole to get even more oil to the plates. Jason can give more details than I can we are waiting for the baskets to arrive too they have our hub. The casted BRP basket in this particular stack up or design is not good period…..Needs an assembly redesign with a fitted billet basket to their casted hub and stock plates, springs, oiling, etc…..…..

We seen this before with the LTR’s look at how long they have been trying to redesign 3rd gear for years and can’t get it right it’s hit and miss too…..I know of SOME owners that have to dig into their case after every race, same with KTM I know an owner that rebuilds tranny’s often, point is this clutch mod is not that bad buying a new basket could be worse a tranny.

Diesel your on the right track, if you don’t have the updated cover get it from BRP or ask BCS if they can drill the hole you may be able to do this yourself….Send Jason your inner hub for their mod and get their basket fit checked to the hub, get the 9th friction plate update and install it per the 2009-9 bulletin, make sure the clutch is adjusted at the clutch and lever per the manual and ALWAYS keep the lever adjust to 3/8-5/8, use some heavy duty spring, run a high quality synthetic oil like Motoplex.

To answer your question getting the 2009-9 update and running a BCS or Hinson basket is the safest alternative, I know of a few than ran the Hinson w/the update last year that did fine. I chose to test the stock basket and it failed, had I known better I would have purchased a hinson 25 hours ago and not have metal in my motor.

[Drilling2643]

TNT is right, i just got off the phone with bcs they said that they will drill and shave your inner hub for $40, they also make a clutch basket for ds wich is $230, well now i have to get parts

[TNT]

BRP HUB - The stock 2009-9 hub is remachined the depth of it to get better fit more pressure (look @ the bulletin) BUT BCS has a mod to the stock hub they drill holes to get even more oil to the plates and better assembly fit-up, Jason @ BCS can explain better ours is at thier shop so I have not seen this yet. So the BRP HUB can be better! Most don't fail nor do I have a problem with it BUT it can contribute to plate and basket failure, you have to look this as an entire assembly that works together, one weak link fails the assembly. BCS machines and drills the hub to make it better fit the basket ok....

BRP Basket - it is a weak 5XXX casting, casting are weak since they are pourous. Machine baskets from aluminum 2XXX series plate or bar stock or "billet" is the industry term or buzz word are MUCH stonger, plus most companies put an surface hardening finish such as Alkadine or Anodize that increases it's ability to take bending moments or torque and/or surface cracks that can cause crack failures from mating parts such as plates etc....The BRP casted basket does not have this finish ok.....

Make sense? If not ask away I will explain.

[TNT]

BCS vs Hinson Basket:

Mind you I have not seen the Hinson or BCS but Jason told me that BCS has machined bosses that attach the gear vs Hinson holes in the web of the basket, I’m a engineer deal with this daily if you take a cross section through hinson holes or BCS machined boss BCS wins since there is more cross sectional material to prevent cracking. Most of the stock baskets I seen failed at the holes in the web where it attaches to the gear. Now hinson has the billet hard anodize finish and is a good basket too so you choose. Plus BCS fit checks the hub to thier basket not sure hinson does.

Also I have not seen the BCS hub mod yet but since BCS has been running it all last season I’ll trust it’s good. BCS, Jason is an honest guy about his products I have found, for example they have been testing a new race harness that I hear eliminated the relays but the fuel pump is usually a tough one since it has to be shut off and on to maintain system pressure, so it didn’t work think that was the reason why….It be nice if we could get rid of the fuel pump battery, relays, that’s another topic…..close but no cigar BCS nice try!

[kbruce130]

Motoworks is also offering a complete clutch kit that includes upgrades to both the basket and the gears and is the same system that they are running on their "Team Motoworks" race bikes. Unfortunately it will set you back $699!

[TNT]

You know what just blows my mind about the whole thing is BRP put up some tooling cost for the casting dies to make the basket, they probably got a return ROI on that up front investment at some engine # sale in 08, since then some have got dealers to recoop the cost of the 2009-9 update some of which has come out of BRP mfg budget.

BRP is a world class aircraft manufacture and is sister company to Bombardia Aircraft where they get some of thier technolgy from. You know this division has 3 axis flat bed NC controlled machining and they or BRP can mass produce billet baskets for a fraction of the cost that aftermarket company's can, I'd pay $50 more in MSRP for it.

Also, and I have done these studies before, sometimes in a make(in house) or buy(from a supplier or aftermarket company such as BCS, Hinson, MW's, etc) the BUY shows good if you were to account for all the in house man hours, material cost, 'time and materials' to meet prodution rates. SOME just have more industry expertise then the OEM and SOME stand behind thier product with warratees take the OEM out of the warantee and recall/buletin loop. If not add the aftermarket cost $2-300 to the MSRP.

The casting is weaker than billet, but it's not always about billet and surface finishes, I trusted the "MX/XC" basket assembly configuration since they have more assembly design control than hybrid designs, but some BRP basket design groove is not right yet.

Lets hope BRP installs a simple COST EFFECTIVE billet basket properly designed in the race quad assemblies in the future NO MORE BULITENS or BS so that clutch is fixed once and for all!!! ..If not add the after-market $2-300 basket cost to the 2010 and on MSRP, + $208 update 2008 some 2009's per 2009-9 bulliten.